• Cowbob45@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    My dude you need to stop right now before you end up saying that genocide isn’t that bad. Because that’s what Pol Pot did.

      • cryball@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Killing millions and being dysfunctional are in a different realm of terrible. I’m sorry, but how did you come to the conclusion that they are even comparable?

        • river@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          hm i wonder if theres any capitalist countries with a history of committing genocide…

            • river@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              oh dear here we go. off the top of my head, there is of course, canada, usa (native americans), israel (palestinians), nazi germany (jewish people, PoC, queer people, communists, and a whole bunch of others)(it mightve called itself socialist but was still very much capitalist), china (uyghur people) (also might call itself communist but they literally have billionaires and a fucking stock market, cmon)

              • robinn@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                Largely agree, but the China point is wrong. China is not genociding Uyghurs; China has billionaires, yes, but this is only due to China’s unique place in underdevelopment and the “skipping” of the capitalist stage which necessitates a “primary stage” socialist economy, read this article on China’s billionaires and SWCC; what is this stock market point? China’s economy is dominated by public enterprise. 24 of the 25 (12 of 12) top earning companies in China are SOEs, 70% of the top 500 companies in China are SOEs, 75% of the 109 Chinese companies on the global top 500 are SOEs; China has ~150,000 SOEs which in total yield produce more profits than the private sector, with the CPC reaping ~60% of profits from POEs, while POEs shrink in nationalization and state deconstruction while SOEs grow (both in dominance, size, and productivity). This is all of course focusing on an exoskeleton which ignores the internal structure that serves the proletariat through a variety of ways.

              • cryball@sopuli.xyz
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                1 year ago

                I view nazi germany and china quite a bit different from real capitalist societies. Simply having a stock market doesn’t mean the markets are free to function as they please.

                I also tend to disagree with canada and usa being genocidial at this point in time. For sure they did horrific things, but comparing usa to nazi germany or current day china is delusional, as the US country’s government is not actively killing a part of their own population.

                What rubs me the wrong way in these conversations is mentioning capitalism as a system that commits the genocide. Both germany and china are/were state driven, and as such the markets didn’t really have anything to do with the actions. Instead the genocide is driven by the government that is/was authoritarian, and as such the markets aren’t driving the killing.

                The one country I agree with being a free market and genocidial is Israel.

                  • cryball@sopuli.xyz
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                    1 year ago

                    It counts for sure. It’s just different to call current US genocidial in comparison to stating that US has committed genocide. Kinda like germany is not a genocidial country, but 80 years ago it was. The government now isn’t the same that committed the atrocities.

                    I’m probably off topic, but in left leaning communities I see a lot of references to the US as a genocidial regime. My above explanation should clear up somewhat why I feel that it’s a bit far fetched. Eg. the current state of things in the US doesn’t count as one IMO.

                • river@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Simply having a stock market doesn’t mean the markets are free to function as they please.

                  are u saying that government intervention in the “free market” = communism?

                  as a reminder, communism is a stateless, classless, and moneyless society.

                  also, state intervention in the market does not make a country no longer capitalist, they all have that.

                  but comparing usa to nazi germany or current day china is delusional

                  i was just giving u a list of genocidal capitalist countries, i wasnt comparing them with each other.

                  many countries are built on genocide thanks to colonialism. canada is one of them, and it has not changed its course

                  • cryball@sopuli.xyz
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                    1 year ago

                    are u saying that government intervention in the “free market” = communism?

                    I mostly agree with the rest of the points, but I have to comment on this. I’m not implying that china is communist. AFAIK I did not state that in my comments. What I am saying is that government intervention in free markets is antithetical to capitalism. That doesn’t make it communism, socialism, or any other flavor of purism, but still disqualifies the country from being capitalist.

            • river@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              yea i know. genocide is never a good thing. no matter who does it. whats ur point?

              • ATGM 🚀@beehaw.org
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                1 year ago

                I’m not sure about your specific views, but my point is that the genocides carried out by the USSR and by China and by other ‘Communist’ states are bad, and that they don’t become any less bad as a consequence of Capitalism also having carried out genocides.