Not much need for a wall right now, but I think an unmanageably large volume of climate refugees is something that could reasonably happen in the coming years.
Wall doesn’t solve that.
Killing the rich and ending fossil fuels might.
What does? Probably becoming better prepared to accommodate people would be a better solution. But if that isn’t something we’re willing to do, and as a result can’t handle a large sudden population increase without major destabilization, maybe a wall would be useful.
Sorry, I edited real quick:
Kill the rich and end fossil fuels, immediately
Seems like a great argument for addressing climate change as a priority.
Cannot fix something if you don’t believe it’s broken
Definitely needed, but we’re past the point where we can expect to avoid some level of catastrophic situations and probably need to start planning for them.
Doesn’t seem like many world governments are motivated to even do that. It feels very much like the people in charge are actively avoiding having to think about these issues, letting them play out until it’s too late, by which time it will be someone else’s problem.
Maybe it helps that the rich and powerful will be the people least affected.
You’re assuming your own country is impervious to climate change. It’s the dirty poors bringing their problems to you, right? How dare they.
Well no, that assumption isn’t needed, the US being negatively impacted by climate change would make this even harder to deal with (lower crop production, local displacement from coastal cities, etc). But the fact is it’s not at the equator, where the problems will be the worst, where there may be growing regions that can no longer support human life, where this growing pressure has caused wars, and the direction people will be fleeing is away from the equator. In that situation will we really be in a position to address those people’s problems? How many of them before things just break down? 50 million? 300? It’s about viability and survival, not contempt.
Few years ago there was a thing called “la reconquista” basically preaching this Havent seen or heard of it again til this dredged it back up
If you don’t remember. According to the Tordesillas treaty, most of the Americas belong to Spain and some to Portugal. So, gtfo, British invader. /S
Coming into the country legally, with a passport even, is not an issue.
I legally entered from Canada on a plane, passport and implied tourist visa. I then overstayed my visa, and was an illegal immigrant for a while.
A wall along the southern border doesn’t do shit.
You entered legally, great. So the US knew who you were and that you were entering the country.
Shame on you for over staying though.
That’s how the vast majority of undocumented immigrants get here.
I see a lot of people saying that but have yet to find the statistics they’re referring to.
I mean, it doesn’t take much to verify: https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us
Adding to what all the others said, majority of those who cross the border on foot are asylum seekers, and even if they don’t have documents, they are still in the country legally until the court makes a decision on their asylum claim.
“Illegals” lol
Wish there were a PC one word name for “undocumented immigrants”. Undocumenteds? Undocs? Unims?
‘PC’, dude are you a Nazi from 1996?
No, I’m a mac!
Why do we need to dehumanize them? Words like “illegals” remove the personhood from the group, is it really that difficult to just use two words instead of one?
Most undocumented immigrants in the US enter legally then never leave.
The idea that most cross the border on foot isn’t supported by data.
The majority of illegal immigrants enter legally as say tourists then just don’t go back(becoming illegal). The other main option is any sort of boat because the US has a gigantic coastline. If they didn’t find jobs in the US or could make a living in their home country they wouldn’t try and come to the US. But they get hired to do those jobs Americans don’t want to do, which ends up being a lot of seasonal work and more unhealthy work (like grinding countertops).
Socialism, ironically, is the best solution to such a right wing issue.
You could eliminate the vast majority of illegal immigration and scrap minimum wage by implementing a livable UBI.
Why pay an immigrant more money in cash when you could pay a citizen less because their basic needs are already covered?
UBI would not solve this problem, it should be implemented for other reasons though.
Citizens have jobs that they will basically not take regardless of pay. In particular seasonal and rural farm work means even paying 40 or 50 an hour often isn’t enough of a draw to get enough American workers to work a 10-12h day in the summer sun in bumfuck nowhere for a month. Then next month somewhere else. Not to mention a lack of resources and the general living conditions available. This lack of draw would only be more true if basic needs are covered. You can be pickier about work if your basics are met.
Maybe 40-50 an hour for one month isn’t a good enough draw because if you don’t get another job immediately you begin the spiral back into poverty. Stability is more important to most people.
I dont think that follows. If I had UBI, a supermarket would have to pay a lot more than it did when I worked there during uni. I only worked there because it was the thing that was available to keep a roof over my head and food on the table. It was miserable especially for the pay. No way in hell id do it for less if those needs were covered.
In my mind UBI actually would have to make wages more competitive to attract people who want to earn extra but aren’t forced into shitty jobs.
That doesn’t make any sense. Why would a job have to pay you more when your basic necessities are covered? It’s literally extra fucking around money. It’s life style money, not living money.
Imagine all your essenital expenses are paid. Are you going to not do any work, or are you going to go do a job so you can afford a better lifestyle?
The best part is that the free market actually needs to do what people claim it does and regulate itself.
If no one is willing to work for $4/hour for spending money, then no one will. The business needs to adapt or die, not the citizen needing to cope or die.
But if someone is willing to do that job, it’s truly of their free will.
If no one is willing to work for $4/hour for spending money, then no one will. The business needs to adapt or die, not the citizen needing to cope or die.
I mean… yea? They need to adapt their wages… to be more competitive and attract employees who now don’t need to work to survive…
That doesn’t make any sense. Why would a job have to pay you more when your basic necessities are covered? It’s literally extra fucking around money. It’s life stylemoney, not living money.
Because employees can choose not to work for shit money, they can take time to find something more chill or spend time to elevate their qualifications.
Imagine all your essenital expenses are paid. Are you going to not do any work, or are you going to go do a job so you can afford a better lifestyle?
Again, a supermarket would have to pay a decent chunk over minimum wage for me to consider every going there for leisure/lifestyle money.
So you literally only want food & shelter? You have no desire to eat from a restaurant, or drink an unnecessary beverage, or watch a movie, or see a play, or travel beyond where you can walk, or any minor luxury if it meant having to work at a grocery store?
Wouldn’t you argue that someone working at a grocery store or any other current minimum wage job should be able to do all that with just minimum wage? Then why not UBI and less than minimum wage?
I am not saying I, or others, do not have that desire. But why would they want to spend 8 hours a day being miserable to be barely able to afford those things? If a person has any ability to delay gratification, I do not see why they would work for a subpar wage, especially at a job that sucks. Which is why wages must be more competitive to to be able to sustain a workforce under a UBI system.
Hell, and its not even just jobs that suck per se. I would quit being a doctor and probably go back to landscaping if all I needed was lifestyle money. The pay was good enough for that sort of a thing and the work was super chill. Granted this is partly because medicine doesn’t pay as well as it ought to over here, but that is kind of the point. Why would I do something for inadequate pay when I can do something else for adequate pay?
This argument would be valid if people were illegally immigrating via visa overstaying. But since we know the large majority are doing it via crossing the border this argument is crap.
I hope you’re being sarcastic, because visa overstays IS the most common form of illegal immigration into the country. https://rollcall.com/2019/02/01/border-wall-debate-ignores-biggest-source-of-illegal-immigration-visa-overstays/
Man it’s nearly impossible to find an unbiased source on this. I even found one with a .gov extension, but then saw it was a Republican anti immigration site in fine print.
Best I could do was one from a news station in Arizona that has citations within it. I did not go so far as to check each citation in the article.
Anyway, it’s from December 2023 which maaaaaaybe would be recent enough for your antagonist and it says that of ALL illegal immigrants currently living in the US, 40% of them entered on a visa and overstayed.
Another thing I kept seeing on all sources of immigration was the word “encounter”
When we hear of many millions of immigrants each (insert opinionated time period here - year, month, week, whatever), it uses the word encounter rather than the word crossing, and especially not the word presently residing.
I’m replying to you with this rather than your antagonist, because I feel it would be useless to say anything at all, regardless of recency or veracity, to the latter.
Yeah. This was the same issue I was having. And it’s frustrating as hell when politicians are running on “millions of illegals” and we don’t have anywhere close to an accurate number. The 2019 article seemed the most recent actually accurate study.
Did you notice the year of your article?
Well show us your article then, current year preferably.
The article talks about 700k overstayed visas, so it would be less than that by some amount, and there was something like 2.5 million crossed the border last year. But even if the visa overstaying was less a wall would still be effective in stopping part of the crime. I am not even making a judgement on if a wall is good or not, but it would stop a significant portion of the illegal immigration.
Oh hey that was a nice article you shared to source your information.
Do you actually just believe something if its in article form? I am open to those numbers being wrong, but they seem in the ballpark.
Let’s have a quick lesson in credibility:
You should take everything you read with varying degrees of skepticism. Some things warrant more skepticism than others. For example, which of these two should you be more skeptical of?
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An article written by someone paid to write things. Their actual name is on the article, thus so is their reputation. And if they’re worth their salt, they’ll also link to direct sources for data shared in their article.
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some random dude on a forum who consistently fails to provide sourcing for the numbers, this failing to price they didn’t pull those numbers out of their ass.
Now, I don’t have to accept any of the options at face value, but one is more convincing than the other.
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You are exactly opposite of reality.
You know that not all undocumented immigrants are brown right? That there are white Europeans who just never left?
Okay, but what does that have to do with anything? Do you guys ever think that you are the ones fixated on race, so maybe you are racists?
You are using the wrong term, it’s not racist, it’s xenophobic (which isn’t any better)
IMO with regards to the GOP this is just hair splitting
It’s probably both though.
If it’s xenophobic, they would discriminate against white immigrants too
Xenophobia is fear or aversion of things perceived as strange or foreign, you idiot.
Nah.
Xenophobia is the fear or dislike of anything which is perceived as being foreign or strange.
-Wikipedia
And they don’t discriminate against white immigrants
Because similar skin isn’t perceived as foreign
yeah, I’m saying that’s still xenophobia.
I’m just saying, their plan does not differ from mine that much. I was simply already here.
