I really shouldn’t even have to go over this- we LIVED it already.
No, that’s not true. In fact, that’s incredible, delusional cope. What we lived already was nothing compared to what a term-limited Trump with nothing to lose backed by a fully-formed Project 2025 administration would be like.
Fair, but to their point, we know how it’ll play out - the press will fall in line, the sycophants will queue up, everyone will pretend this is fine, and absolute chaos will be the order of the day. That we’ve already lived before.
I don’t give a shit about the press or the sycophants! The issue is what the fascists will actually do, not how they will be perceived. And what they’re going to do is shit like this (from another Lemmy post today – I didn’t even have to look far to find it):
We’re talking about purges, pogroms, gulags, maybe even mass-murder of leftists and minorities. That’s not an “everyone will pretend this is fine” issue; that’s an “everyone will be literally imprisoned or dead issue!”
Yes, and when that doesn’t happen, all the people who were expecting the apocalypse to happen (like they did with the last Trump presidency) will neglect to show up for the next election… again.
The fanatics and sycophants (like the one you literally posted) are a distraction from all the people actually making changes in background. The people appointing judges, the people capturing regulation for their own ends.
People talk about how we’ll all be lined up and shot if we lose the presidency to Trump… but that’s not how these people work. It has never been how these people work. 99% of what they do is pander to their base with wild claims of what they’re going to do to the “woke-crowd” and the “socialists”. Then when they get into office they block any kind of effective legislation and blame the left and the neo-liberals for standing in the way of “America”.
Fascism in this country won’t happen with a shotgun blast, it will happen with a shiv in the dark.
You should read some history books. It is happening EXACTLY like it happened in the past. Down to a T. Other fascist groups weren’t successful their first attempt at seizing power either. Other fascist groups didn’t go from 0 to gas chamber instantly.
The fact that they haven’t yet lined people up against the wall does not mean they won’t the second they feel they can get away with it.
The last time they tried to steal power was a practice run. One they’ve learned from. One that almost succeeded except for some key people who didn’t bend their knee. Having people like that around is a mistake they will not make again.
There’s not this giant silent majority of Leftist voters. Most voters, especially in swing states, are independents / undecideds. You guys are so insular you think that everyone is like you. Dems aren’t pandering to you because there’s not a lot of you and most of you are too fickle to vote anyway.
And half of you are fucking outside agitators for whom no concession would be enough because the entire point is bashing Biden.
The only problem is when you people, whether paid trolls or useful idiots, manage to start swaying the mass of politically uninformed citizens to do stupid things.
Trying to give you people what you want is a fool’s errand, because it’s never enough. You have never given Biden credit for anything he’s done. Nothing is ever a victory, because every victory is met with “that’s not good enough”. You’ll never see establishment Dems support you because you’ve shown you’ll never support establishment Dems. The alternative for establishment dems is to convince uninformed voters to ignore you.
So what you’re saying is no, Democrats don’t need progressives.
Is that what you’re saying? It’s funny how I posit effectively a yes or no question and nobody can give a yes or no answer. You’re the fourth person in this one comment chain who hasnt said whether Democrats need progressives to win or not to make concessions.
It’s funny how I posit effectively a yes or no question and nobody can give a yes or no answer.
Because you’re demanding a simple answer to a complex question. It’s not a “yes” or a “no”. It’s a “yes, but” or a “no, but” answer depending on how you look at it.
The answer, as we’ve all been telling you, is neither of those. Leftists (because you’re not talking about progressives no matter how much you try to pretend you are) are inconsequential themselves. But their influence (lately) on uninformed voters is very consequential. People who would never call themselves leftists but are being suckered in by leftist talking points.
It’s also irresponsible to think of it only as democrats and republicans. It’s also irresponsible to doompost and naysay any positive action because it’s not perfect. It’s also irresponsible to act as though you stand on a moral high ground when all you can do is turn up your nose and say “not good enough”.
You’re right. It was insensitive of me to pledge my vote to the guy who has not made a campaign promise to overturn trans rights. Tell me, how can I be a better ally in the future?
No, that’s not true. In fact, that’s incredible, delusional cope. What we lived already was nothing compared to what a term-limited Trump with nothing to lose backed by a fully-formed Project 2025 administration would be like.
Fair, but to their point, we know how it’ll play out - the press will fall in line, the sycophants will queue up, everyone will pretend this is fine, and absolute chaos will be the order of the day. That we’ve already lived before.
I don’t give a shit about the press or the sycophants! The issue is what the fascists will actually do, not how they will be perceived. And what they’re going to do is shit like this (from another Lemmy post today – I didn’t even have to look far to find it):
We’re talking about purges, pogroms, gulags, maybe even mass-murder of leftists and minorities. That’s not an “everyone will pretend this is fine” issue; that’s an “everyone will be literally imprisoned or dead issue!”
Yes, and when that doesn’t happen, all the people who were expecting the apocalypse to happen (like they did with the last Trump presidency) will neglect to show up for the next election… again.
The fanatics and sycophants (like the one you literally posted) are a distraction from all the people actually making changes in background. The people appointing judges, the people capturing regulation for their own ends.
People talk about how we’ll all be lined up and shot if we lose the presidency to Trump… but that’s not how these people work. It has never been how these people work. 99% of what they do is pander to their base with wild claims of what they’re going to do to the “woke-crowd” and the “socialists”. Then when they get into office they block any kind of effective legislation and blame the left and the neo-liberals for standing in the way of “America”.
Fascism in this country won’t happen with a shotgun blast, it will happen with a shiv in the dark.
“when that doesn’t happen”
Like Roe v Wade getting reversed didn’t happen?
You should read some history books. It is happening EXACTLY like it happened in the past. Down to a T. Other fascist groups weren’t successful their first attempt at seizing power either. Other fascist groups didn’t go from 0 to gas chamber instantly.
The fact that they haven’t yet lined people up against the wall does not mean they won’t the second they feel they can get away with it.
The last time they tried to steal power was a practice run. One they’ve learned from. One that almost succeeded except for some key people who didn’t bend their knee. Having people like that around is a mistake they will not make again.
Sounds like dems should do more to get progressives, if the stakes are so high.
If the stakes are so high??
What is it with people who don’t live in the US constantly shitting in these threads.
Are the stakes high or not? Because Democrats are not acting like it enough to concede to progressives.
It is irresponsible to alienate progressives right now.
Which is it?
There’s not this giant silent majority of Leftist voters. Most voters, especially in swing states, are independents / undecideds. You guys are so insular you think that everyone is like you. Dems aren’t pandering to you because there’s not a lot of you and most of you are too fickle to vote anyway.
And half of you are fucking outside agitators for whom no concession would be enough because the entire point is bashing Biden.
The only problem is when you people, whether paid trolls or useful idiots, manage to start swaying the mass of politically uninformed citizens to do stupid things.
Trying to give you people what you want is a fool’s errand, because it’s never enough. You have never given Biden credit for anything he’s done. Nothing is ever a victory, because every victory is met with “that’s not good enough”. You’ll never see establishment Dems support you because you’ve shown you’ll never support establishment Dems. The alternative for establishment dems is to convince uninformed voters to ignore you.
So what you’re saying is no, Democrats don’t need progressives.
Is that what you’re saying? It’s funny how I posit effectively a yes or no question and nobody can give a yes or no answer. You’re the fourth person in this one comment chain who hasnt said whether Democrats need progressives to win or not to make concessions.
Yes… or No?
Because you’re demanding a simple answer to a complex question. It’s not a “yes” or a “no”. It’s a “yes, but” or a “no, but” answer depending on how you look at it.
What is so complex about “Do democrats need progressives”?
Either they are an instrumental voting block that needs to be taken seriously, or they don’t matter (and therefore deserve no blame if Joe loses).
You want it both ways because you are not arguing in good faith.
The answer, as we’ve all been telling you, is neither of those. Leftists (because you’re not talking about progressives no matter how much you try to pretend you are) are inconsequential themselves. But their influence (lately) on uninformed voters is very consequential. People who would never call themselves leftists but are being suckered in by leftist talking points.
It’s also irresponsible to think of it only as democrats and republicans. It’s also irresponsible to doompost and naysay any positive action because it’s not perfect. It’s also irresponsible to act as though you stand on a moral high ground when all you can do is turn up your nose and say “not good enough”.
That is not an answer. Do Democrats need progressives enough to concede on issues?
Yes or No? Thats the reality we face, like it or not.
No one can read the future so who knows… maybe? Maybe not? Depends how many people go out to vote?
Enjoy your life under the boot if you take that gamble and it doesn’t go your way, and always remember your share of the blame whatever comes.
I agree. Its a risky game, and when dems are alienating their base, it becomes far riskier. Truly irresponsible behavior.
Are you willing to let Trump win if the answer is no?
That’s the reality we face, like it or not.
So nobody will answer. Got it.
It sure seems like the non-progressives have taken their ball and went home. Some allies.
You’re right. It was insensitive of me to pledge my vote to the guy who has not made a campaign promise to overturn trans rights. Tell me, how can I be a better ally in the future?