I honestly can’t wrap my head around this. If I emigrated elsewhere to flee this shit-show, I would absolutely help other people cross whatever borders I did.
Democrats often display they same intolerance towards republicans though. Both parties have a habit of attacking rather than supporting. I thought this election might be different with the democrats, and I think its improved, but they still fight in the mud far too often for my liking.
That’s funny, because I would have said the exact opposite; Democrats have been taking the “they go low, we go high” approach for far too long, and it has historically allowed republicans to blatantly lie while remaining almost entirely unchecked. By this point, denying reality is an engrained part of conservative culture. This election is the first time in recent memory that I have seen democrats actually stop pulling punches and start blatantly accusing the republicans of lying.
And honestly, it’s a welcome change. “The tolerant left” was a term coined by the right, to be able to cry when liberals called them out for intolerance. Democrats have finally started ignoring the crocodile tears and calling them out for what they are.
Its a matter of perspective in my opinion. From my groups perspective, they usually do go high. From other groups perspectives, its rare they do. Its unfortunate democrats have taken advantage of so many groups of people, that’s what I mean by going low. They have gone low with republicans, and they have gone low with third party voters and uncommitted voters as well. They have tried to take the high road in most other places it seems though, which actually wasn’t the norm. Anti-corporate policy is relatively new.
How is that relatively new? I’m pushing 40 and since long before my lifetime it’s been democrats supporting unions, breaking monopolies, and placing regulations on industry.
You probably know more than I do for being older, but I don’t recall the democrats being earnest about any of it. Obama was a nightmare depending which sector you worked in at the time.
Maybe they do what you say but the net result is things have gotten worse from an inequality standpoint.
Perspective is important because it helps you view a situation from multiple viewpoints. Not everyone is white and upper middle class.
And by the way, focusing on the representatives and what actions they take, is considering their perspective. Perspective is immensely important in politics because who someone is and how the represent themselves is just as important as the policy they profess.
I’m defending Jill Stein because not a single person has shown me one thing she has done wrong. Sitting at a table with Putin, and a Russian news station promoting her, all have nothing to do with HER actions. If she was going to make an underhanded deal with Putin and their tv station heads, they wouldnt do it so publicly.
She has a clear statement about Putin being a war criminal, but whenever she criticizes America everyone loses their minds. We aren’t the greatest country, we are the most destructive, and the one that causes the most suffering. I appreciate her for bringing these topics up.
if we make it easier to come here, that nullifies the work I did
A similar argument applies to a lot of other things, for example:
student loan forgiveness - I paid my student loans (or worked to avoid them), why should others get a pass?
mortgage assistance - I saved to be able to afford a home, why should others skip that step?
A lot of people attribute this to selfishness, but I think it’s closer to jealousy. I have two kids who share a bedroom, and if I reward them equally for cleaning up when one did 90% of the work, that doesn’t seem fair to the one that did the most work, even if they’re older and more capable. I think that’s pretty similar to what’s happening here.
That said, I personally am in favor of much more open borders, and I’d like to get to a point where we don’t have quotas or anything and people can come as they please. My ideal is a quick stop at the border to fill out a form (i.e. temporary work authorization), then perhaps monthly digital reports about job status, and then a longer-term authorization once you can prove employment (or at least financial stability). We have a huge backlog, so in the meantime I’d like to simplify the paperwork and increase the quotas until that backlogged demand is exhausted.
Ive helped several Americans join me in my new home, from helping with first steps, picking up from the airport, getting cellphones set up, advice on how to get settled, introducing to new people etc. If they’re leaving the US and moving them and their families across an ocean, they’re more aligned with my preferred culture than the one we fled. I was met with nothing but acceptance and kindness when I reached out to locals when I was moving and as I arrived, so if anything, that’s the culture I’m trying to assimilate into.
Which is ironic IMO, because it’s the poor, non-white immigrants that build this country from the ground up. They take the jobs we don’t want, which keeps our prices low so our better educated citizens can take better jobs. Then after a generation or two, those poor immigrants’ descendants will be the ones taking the better jobs.
We need a constant stream of people willing to take the crappy jobs we don’t want, especially if we want to bring manufacturing back to this country. So I really don’t understand why conservatives want to simultaneously encourage more factories here and discourage low-cost labor.
My analysis is that Republicans want immigrants to be marginalized so they are more able to take advantage of them for labor. If someone was a legal immigrant or had protections, it’s harder to pay them low wages, have no medical or workers comp, hire and fire at will, avoid payroll taxes, and unsafe working conditions… all of which are very dear things to Republicans.
It’s really not that wild, many legal immigrants want to pull the ladder up behind them.
Source: am married to an immigrant and work with several. All of them seem to like Trump’s immigration policies for some reason…
I honestly can’t wrap my head around this. If I emigrated elsewhere to flee this shit-show, I would absolutely help other people cross whatever borders I did.
Conservatives think that some people are just better than others and, surprise surprise, they’re near the top of the “natural hierarchy”.
“I’m an immigrant, but I’m not like those other immigrants because I don’t [Republican stereotype of immigrants]”
Democrats often display they same intolerance towards republicans though. Both parties have a habit of attacking rather than supporting. I thought this election might be different with the democrats, and I think its improved, but they still fight in the mud far too often for my liking.
That’s funny, because I would have said the exact opposite; Democrats have been taking the “they go low, we go high” approach for far too long, and it has historically allowed republicans to blatantly lie while remaining almost entirely unchecked. By this point, denying reality is an engrained part of conservative culture. This election is the first time in recent memory that I have seen democrats actually stop pulling punches and start blatantly accusing the republicans of lying.
And honestly, it’s a welcome change. “The tolerant left” was a term coined by the right, to be able to cry when liberals called them out for intolerance. Democrats have finally started ignoring the crocodile tears and calling them out for what they are.
Its a matter of perspective in my opinion. From my groups perspective, they usually do go high. From other groups perspectives, its rare they do. Its unfortunate democrats have taken advantage of so many groups of people, that’s what I mean by going low. They have gone low with republicans, and they have gone low with third party voters and uncommitted voters as well. They have tried to take the high road in most other places it seems though, which actually wasn’t the norm. Anti-corporate policy is relatively new.
How is that relatively new? I’m pushing 40 and since long before my lifetime it’s been democrats supporting unions, breaking monopolies, and placing regulations on industry.
You probably know more than I do for being older, but I don’t recall the democrats being earnest about any of it. Obama was a nightmare depending which sector you worked in at the time.
Maybe they do what you say but the net result is things have gotten worse from an inequality standpoint.
It’s a matter of actually knowing each parties stance and voting records. Not anything to do with perspective.
Do you agree with the way representatives have voted and bills they’ve supported?
Or do you only care about “perspective”?
Or are you just a month old account that only talks about voting for Jill Stein?
I voted for Harris already.
Perspective is important because it helps you view a situation from multiple viewpoints. Not everyone is white and upper middle class.
And by the way, focusing on the representatives and what actions they take, is considering their perspective. Perspective is immensely important in politics because who someone is and how the represent themselves is just as important as the policy they profess.
I’m defending Jill Stein because not a single person has shown me one thing she has done wrong. Sitting at a table with Putin, and a Russian news station promoting her, all have nothing to do with HER actions. If she was going to make an underhanded deal with Putin and their tv station heads, they wouldnt do it so publicly.
She has a clear statement about Putin being a war criminal, but whenever she criticizes America everyone loses their minds. We aren’t the greatest country, we are the most destructive, and the one that causes the most suffering. I appreciate her for bringing these topics up.
Helping other human beings, even if there is no gain for you? Damn commie! /s
Here’s the thought process:
A similar argument applies to a lot of other things, for example:
A lot of people attribute this to selfishness, but I think it’s closer to jealousy. I have two kids who share a bedroom, and if I reward them equally for cleaning up when one did 90% of the work, that doesn’t seem fair to the one that did the most work, even if they’re older and more capable. I think that’s pretty similar to what’s happening here.
That said, I personally am in favor of much more open borders, and I’d like to get to a point where we don’t have quotas or anything and people can come as they please. My ideal is a quick stop at the border to fill out a form (i.e. temporary work authorization), then perhaps monthly digital reports about job status, and then a longer-term authorization once you can prove employment (or at least financial stability). We have a huge backlog, so in the meantime I’d like to simplify the paperwork and increase the quotas until that backlogged demand is exhausted.
Immigrants are by definition people who left their culture for another. Why would they want to make it easier for others?
If I made it out of the US to Spain, the last thing I want is a bunch more Americans coming with me
Ive helped several Americans join me in my new home, from helping with first steps, picking up from the airport, getting cellphones set up, advice on how to get settled, introducing to new people etc. If they’re leaving the US and moving them and their families across an ocean, they’re more aligned with my preferred culture than the one we fled. I was met with nothing but acceptance and kindness when I reached out to locals when I was moving and as I arrived, so if anything, that’s the culture I’m trying to assimilate into.
Class and race are the issues. Rich, white Immigrants? Sure, that’s them. They’re fine with more. Poor or non-white? No way.
Which is ironic IMO, because it’s the poor, non-white immigrants that build this country from the ground up. They take the jobs we don’t want, which keeps our prices low so our better educated citizens can take better jobs. Then after a generation or two, those poor immigrants’ descendants will be the ones taking the better jobs.
We need a constant stream of people willing to take the crappy jobs we don’t want, especially if we want to bring manufacturing back to this country. So I really don’t understand why conservatives want to simultaneously encourage more factories here and discourage low-cost labor.
My analysis is that Republicans want immigrants to be marginalized so they are more able to take advantage of them for labor. If someone was a legal immigrant or had protections, it’s harder to pay them low wages, have no medical or workers comp, hire and fire at will, avoid payroll taxes, and unsafe working conditions… all of which are very dear things to Republicans.