The following is the text copied from the reddit post in the /r/blind sub reddit.
Moderators of r/blind—along with moderators in other communities who use assistive technologies and Reddit users with accessibility expertise—had a Zoom meeting with representatives at Reddit on Friday, June 16, 2023. While the call was promising in that Reddit invited us to be part of continuing dialog and demonstrated some well-conceived accessible designs for Reddit users, we came away with serious concerns which Reddit was either unable or unwilling to address during the meeting.
Reddit is currently prioritizing accessibility for users rather than for moderators, and representatives were unwilling to provide timelines by when Reddit’s moderation tools would be accessible for screen reader users. Further, Reddit representatives seemed unaware that blind moderators rely on third-party applications because Reddit’s moderation tools present significant accessibility challenges. They also seemed unaware that the apps which have so far received exemptions from API pricing do not have sufficient moderation functions. u/NTCarver0 explained that blind moderators will be unable to ensure safety for our communities—as well as for Reddit in general—without accessible moderation systems, and asked Reddit representatives how blind moderators were supposed to effectively moderate our communities without them. Reddit representatives deferred the question, stating they would have to take notes and get back with us. A fellow moderator, u/MostlyBlindGamer, also pointed out that blind moderators who are unable to effectively moderate the subreddit and thus will become inactive may be removed at Reddit’s discretion per policy, and that such removal would leave r/Blind with no blind moderators. Reddit representatives also deferred comment on this issue.
Reddit representatives refused to answer questions concerning the formal certifications, accreditations or qualifications of employees tasked with ensuring universal accessibility. These certifications demonstrate that a professional has the knowledge necessary to create universally-accessible software and/or documents. Because Reddit cannot confirm that employees tasked with universal accessibility hold appropriate certifications or that the company will provide for such training and certification, we have concerns that employees do not have the appropriate knowledge to effectively ensure access for all assistive technology users both at present and in the future. Reddit has also indicated there are not currently any employees who work full-time on accessibility. This is a necessity for any organization as large and influential as Reddit.
Reddit representatives had previously disclosed to r/Blind moderators that an accessibility audit had been performed by a third-party company, however they refused to answer questions as to what company performed the audit or how the audit was conducted. Answers to these questions would have allowed us to determine whether the audit was performed by an accredited organization known for credible and thorough work. Reddit also could not answer questions as to what assistive technologies, such as screen readers, screen magnifiers, dictation softwares, etc., were used during the audit. Bluntly, we cannot know the thoroughness or scope of the audit—and therefore the extent to which Reddit is aware of the accessibility barriers present in their website and apps—without this information.
During the previous meeting, Reddit representatives raised a question regarding perceived disparities between the accessibility of the iOS and Android apps, suggesting the audit did not confirm that the accessibility failings in the iOS app are much more severe than those present in the Android app. During the latest meeting, u/MostlyBlindGamer explained that the iOS app has no labels for the ubiquitous and essential upvote and downvote buttons while the Android app does. This question raises the concern that Reddit representatives may not have a full and actionable understanding of the issues at stake or, in fact, the exact accessibility failings in their apps.
Reddit representatives narrowly defined the scope of the latest meeting less than an hour ahead of it, explicitly excluding third-party apps and API pricing from the conversation. They did acknowledge that this made it difficult to adequately prepare for the meeting.
Reddit refused to define the term “accessibility-focused app,” alleging that this was outside the scope of the meeting. This term is not industry-standard and was instead created when Reddit carved out an exemption in their upcoming API policies for third-party apps used by blind people to access the platform. Without this definition, we are unable to ascertain whether apps that have not been approved but are nevertheless relied upon by community members qualify for an exemption.
Reddit gave no firm commitments as to when accessibility improvements would be rolled out to the website or apps. However, it is obvious that the Reddit website and apps will not be ready for disabled users—and especially moderators—by July 1.
In general, moderators of r/Blind who attended the call came away with mixed impressions. Reddit seems to be somewhat aware of the myriad accessibility barriers present in their applications and website, and the company appears to be laying the groundwork to fix issues which they are aware of. This is excellent news. However, we also feel that Reddit does not know what it does not know, and this lack of knowledge is exasperating, disheartening, and exhausting. We also came away frustrated that Reddit representatives were either unwilling or unable to answer prudent and pertinent questions which would allow us to determine not only how we can best keep our community safe and healthy, but also whether Reddit is truly prepared to commit to ensuring accessibility for all disabled users both now and in the future. Finally, we hope that our concerns—especially those pertaining to moderation—will be addressed expeditiously and satisfactorily, thus assuring that r/Blind can operate effectively well into the future. Despite our concerns, we remain open to continued dialog with Reddit in the hope that it will foster a more accessible platform.
There were issues filed by screen reader users at the Lemmy-UI github, and a lot of them have already been fixed with pull requests. However, the 0.7 releases don’t have grate accessibility. rblind.com, a community created by the moderators of /r/blind is in open alpha, and is running development code directly from the github, in order to get our community the most accessible Lemmy we can, as quickly as we can. We recognize this is terrible devops practice, and we intend to move onto stable releases when possible. In the meantime, we’re taking regular backups, and warning our community to expect frequent bugs and issues. We’ve chosen Lemmy for our community, largely because the documentation and support around deploying an instance was better. While we hope blind folks will be welcomed at all instances across the fediverse, no matter what software they’re running, it’s important to us to have a place where the former /r/blind community can keep together, and we can begin making custom changes to the themes to create the most accessible Lemmy possible. We will, of course, make all of these changes open, and contribute them to the main version of Lemmy. But running our own instance frees us from waiting for other instance owners to make changes for us, while still allowing us to post to any community on any instance.
Is there any way a regular Joe like me, who is not a programmer, is not blind, can help in any way?
Honestly? Encourage people to describe images. Here, on Mastodon, wherever. Alt-text/image descriptions make a huge difference. Blind people don’t want to just engage with other blind people. If we can normalize alt-text the way it has been on Mastodon in more places, that alone will be a giant accessibility win.
That’s badass, I’m really happy that’s happening! As someone doing devops type stuff, you do what you have to. Running alpha code so you can test and continuously improve accessibility seems like a perfectly good thing to do to me, especially early on. I may or may not have deployed things into prod that were pre-alpha 😅 I hated it, but it solved a problem, and I had a shitton of alerts around that component.
Thanks again for responding. Any way I could throw a few bucks your way to help with server costs?
Thanks for the offer! But we are doing fine for now, and we are not comfortable asking anyone for money until we have demonstrated that we can build our Lemmy into a stable and accessible home for our community. Speaking personally, I’m a self taught hobby sysadmin learning as I go. Right now the focus is on leveling up our mod team; not only do we need to be good moderators, we also need to build digital infrastructure that our community can trust.
Hey it’s not thatttt horrible, your just limit testing CI/CD :)