• Samvega@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 month ago

      Hi, I have a penis. I have observed (autistic superpower: bottom-up perception) male fragility in psychological state more than that of women. “Sometimes people have fragile psychological states and react in ways I find annoying,” is generally true, but it is more often true for men.

      It might also be that women tend more to internalise slights because they are socialised to be passive. This would result in men being more responsive when they are slighted by, for example, period products being free “because what about men?!?!” Ignoring the fact condoms are given away for free, and are health products that are useful for men (as well as women).

    • kurwa@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Men say that women are weak, fragile, and all that sorts of stuff all the time, women already deal with that. Men who are like this, cannot take the same kind of flak, which inherently proves the point that they are fragile.

      • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Yes, but when men say those things it is unacceptable, so by the same logic shouldn’t this meme be unacceptable or is it a double standard?

        • kurwa@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Pointing out anyone’s fragile ego isn’t a bad thing. Women by and large tend to not do this, while a lot more men do have this issue. That’s why it’s a big meme in the first place, this is why men respond to this sort of thing in a very defensive way.

          • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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            1 month ago

            Pointing out anyone’s fragile ego isn’t a bad thing.

            Pointing out a person’s fragile ego based on an experience of such isn’t a bad thing, but generalizing this conclusion to an entire group of people (where the group is defined by a single characteristic such as race/sex/gender/religion/culture/etc) is a bad thing.

            To put it another way, one sample is bad statistics.

            A better version of this might say “Many of the men I meet seem to have fragile egos” or even “Most of the men I know [etc]”. This could be a valid statement supported by the individual’s experience, and avoids the sexism displayed in the comic.

            • kurwa@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Correct. Saying all men are rapist’s is sexist. However, in this meme, she says sometimes. She even says it quietly as to keep her opinion quiet and to themselves. However all the men around somehow heard and complain that they do not infact have fragile egos.

              Men getting upset over the possibility of being targeted, not even directly, is proving the point that men are being fragile about their egos.

              This is a meme, but it exists because of the prevalence of the issue of a lot of men being overly defensive for no damn reason.

              • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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                1 month ago

                However, in this meme, she says sometimes.

                Yeah this is vague. The sentence: “Sometimes men’s egos can be so fragile” can be read as meaning that all men’s egos are sometimes fragile, or it could mean that some men’s egos are always fragile. But the use of “sometimes” implies a variance with time (e.g. not with person) which makes the first interpretation a better fit.

                If the second meaning was intended, then the sentence should be restated to avoid the apparent sexism.

                You could also say that the meaning is that some men’s egos are sometimes fragile, but I don’t think that interpretation is valid because then the ending of comic doesn’t make sense.

                • kurwa@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  Either way, the word always was not used.

                  I think this whole thread not talking about the why’s but talking about the double standards, sexism against men and the nit picking of the meme kind of just proves the memes point.

          • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            I suppose thats fair, you can make the argument that the meme is a reaction rather than a random attack.

            • kurwa@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              Exactly, if you’re a man and find this meme funny, it’s not about you. If you get upset about it, then its about you.

    • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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      1 month ago

      I’m just confused. If it’s a double standard, what’s the opposing view that creates the double standard?

      I probably already know, but can someone help out my tired brain on this one? It doesn’t work too good right now.

      • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        If a man calls women naturally insecure is it acceptable and does any response by women appear as needless badgering?

        Just genderswap the characters and nouns and see if it feels different to you as a result.

        • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          Just genderswap the characters and nouns and see if it feels different to you as a result.

          This is literally the best way to detect sexism. Like, would you say the same thing to someone of a different sex? Same thing with people who call assertive women “bitchy”. They would call a similar man “determined”.

          Of course this comic is just rage bait for men and women…

        • kofe@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          The first panel says men’s egos sometimes…

          I see no issue, but maybe I’m biased

        • thedarkfly@feddit.nl
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          1 month ago

          There is a social context that makes gender-swapping not entirely symmetrical. Men and women are not treated equally by a large portion of the population. These differences in treatment have repeating patterns and tendencies that create a bias that does not average out.

          Just to be clear, both men and women suffer from these biases. Think “provide for family”, “parental leave”, “children custody”, “real men don’t cry” for men. Women get the short end of stick in terms of autonomy and respect though…

          • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            So some of your standards don’t apply to both genders? Somebody should make a term for that.

            • thedarkfly@feddit.nl
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              1 month ago

              They are not my standards. Describing reality does not mean you’re happy about it. And yeah, that’s sexism, patriarchy, whatever you want to call it.

        • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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          1 month ago

          I’m too tired to wrap my brain around it at the moment, but you gave a valiant effort. I’m sure I’ll get it tomorrow after I’ve gotten my wake up juice.

          I think that’s a clear indication I need to take a break for the evening, so wherever you are and whatever time it is there, I bid you a good morning, afternoon, or goodnight… Whichever is most applicable.

    • EfreetSK@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Oh no, no, not at all. This comic is perfectly fine and non problematic if you replace ‘men’ with any huge group of people like ‘women’, ‘gay’, ‘asians’, ‘americans’ or ‘blacks’. Also if you disagree with me then you just proove my point as is shown in the last panel. Case closed!

        • EfreetSK@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          Oh god, you’re so fragile. You’re literally in second to last sentence of my previous post

        • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          🤷‍♂️ what do you expect when you go out picking a fight? You just expect large populations to ignore messaging that they are all the worlds problems? It’s amazing that none of you have an ounce of empathy.

          • GeneralVincent@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            In the comic she isn’t picking a fight, she is confiding in a friend her frustration that sometimes men can have fragile egos. That doesn’t mean men are the root of all problems. The comic is saying that often criticism, no matter how small or in what context, can be met with an overblown reaction that derails any potential conversation and spirals into name calling and whataboutism.

            It would be sexist to say men are the root of every problem, but I’m not seeing anyone claim that. Not in the comic, not in these comments, not in real life, really only in certain toxic Internet spaces. A woman pointing out a common problem they experience with men ideally would be met with self reflection, not deflection. It is not a lack of empathy from women, it is women not understanding why men struggle to identify an issue that seems so clear to women. And men not understanding why women would make a generalized statement that seems to criticize individual men.

            But women are often talking about a systemic issue with men, not trying to personally insult individuals. And the deflection and insults that they often receive just furthers the frustration between sexes. You’re saying that the issue would be prevented if women didn’t say things that have negative messaging. I firmly believe that would make the issue worse, as the first step to fixing an issue is identifying it and facing it head on.

            Men often have fragile egos. That does not make men evil. It is barely even an issue unless an individual man lets it define his actions. If a criticism from a woman doesn’t seem true to you personally, congrats! You have self reflected and don’t have to worry about it because she’s not talking about you.

            If it helps, I have empathy for you. I’m pretty sure I’m not cis so I don’t call myself a man anymore lol but I had the same feelings as you do until a couple years after I met my wife. We had long talks and disagreements about the divide between men and women that form from miscommunication and misunderstanding. And I expressed frustration at the criticisms women often have of men. And she explained that it’s not meant to insult, just vent from personal experience. That it’s not a way to make men feel bad, not malicious or looking down on men. It’s just an attempt to communicate an issue they see. And after a while I started to see how true that is. And then I realized I might not be a dude so it kinda was a waste of time lmao

            Sorry about the wall of text, tl:dr when a woman is critical it’s meant to express a frustration and communicate an issue, not insult or put down every individual man. If you’re a man and hear criticism, it’s not likely applicable to you. But it helps to self reflect and have empathy