Kiev will conscript 160,000 more troops over the next three months, according to statements from lawmakers and media outlets. More than a million soldiers have already been drafted, yet high losses have left the Ukrainian Armed Forces plagued by manpower shortages.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces had around 250,000 active-duty personnel at the beginning of 2022, a number that rapidly swelled once Vladimir Zelensky called up reservists and forbade draft-age men from leaving the country.

This spring, faced with mounting losses, Kiev lowered the draft age from 27 to 25 and significantly tightened mobilization rules, requiring potential recruits to report to conscription offices for “data validation.” These checks often result in people being immediately taken into the army and sent to the front line.

  • fox2263@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    20
    arrow-down
    45
    ·
    2 months ago

    lol forced.

    The wording of these things. While technically correct, it’s a draft. Because you know, the thousand day invasion threatening their existence.

    • SoJB@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      42
      arrow-down
      14
      ·
      2 months ago

      That’s literally what forced means. Are you an Israeli or something?

      • fox2263@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        30
        ·
        2 months ago

        It’s the negative connotation of the wording that I was implying, not the meaning.

        Are you American or something?

        • geneva_convenience@lemmy.mlOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          19
          arrow-down
          16
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          He is implying Ukrainians are not drafted Israel style. There is no 30 day prison vacation for refusing to obey. These people are thrown in the back of a van and transported to the battlefield to slightly extend what is already a lost war.

          The west is not serious about supporting Ukraine to victory. That much should be obvious by now. Even the mainstream newspapers are saying Ukraine is not fighting to win now.

          • fox2263@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            17
            ·
            2 months ago

            I’m not Israeli though. What is Israeli style. Israel is not being invaded.

            Without sending troops, there isn’t much else the west can do beyond allowing deep strikes with their missiles which I agree should never have been an issue.

            Again though, conscription via a draft while forced yes, is not the inference of the wording of the article. It’s trying to paint Ukraine in a bad light for having to do it vs Russia who have done worse for their manpower goals.

            • geneva_convenience@lemmy.mlOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              14
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              2 months ago

              The argument is not “Russia good”. Russia bad too.

              The point is: any Ukrainian who is not ideologically driven to fight against Russia should not be forced to do so. Their deaths will not achieve anything meaningful.

              This is a war of attrition. Ukraine has not received the military support required to win.

              • fox2263@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                10
                ·
                2 months ago

                Hmm Ukraine can’t receive men so they have to use their own men. I don’t understand the argument

                • geneva_convenience@lemmy.mlOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  13
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  Ukraine can receive men. There are multiple volunteers from other countries fighting for Ukraine.

                  You too are allowed to go and fight for Ukraine. Are you willing to risk your own life, or admit that Ukrainian men are treated as disposable toys instead of humans?

    • CMonster@discuss.online
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      2 months ago

      Conscription is usually an ongoing event. A draft is a specific, often temporary, implementation of conscription.

    • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      35
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      Because you know, the thousand day invasion threatening their existence.

      Whose existence?
      Seriously, what kind of mental gymnastics one needs to do to consider this a valid argument…
      Show me, how is the existence of people on liberated territories (like Crimea, Melitopol and so on) are threatened?
      Or maybe those people are actually okay (well, at least relatively to those of us who are still stuck on Zelensky controlled territories…) and it’s the lives of those whom Zelensky can still reach are threatened, because his regime can kidnap them at any moment and send to the meatgrinder?

        • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          18
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          Is it better to be drafted now, or wait until Putin has another territory to “liberate”

          Are you absolutely seriously asking whether it is better to almost cetrainly die now, or have a chance of dying in some hypothetical situation later? I’ll choose the latter every single time, thank you…

          Is it suddenly ok when it’s Russia drafting “free” Ukrainians from those “liberated” territories?

          No, it’s also not OK. It doesn’t happen on even remotely similar scale to what Zelensky is doing.

          Are the kidnapped children free now? Happy? Doubtful.

          Probably not.
          At least they are alive in contrast to all the men Zelensky’s regime kidnapped and sent to die.

          Living there, it seems like you live your normal life. But you can’t express your thoughts, there are topics you can’t discuss, you can’t go where you want. You live like a spider in a jar. You are kept inside, and you run in circles like horses in a circus ring. Those who expect Ukraine to save us are having a hard time. It’s hard on morale. You’re not allowed to speak about Ukraine; Ukrainian symbols are banned. If you hear something, or say something they think is wrong, they grab you and put you in a basement.

          So, the same as in Ukraine, but without the kidnappings and with an ability to leave at any time.

          • tired_n_bored@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            Maybe if blood thirsty dictator putin didn’t start a war of aggression, there could have been 0 deaths. I’d rather die fighting russia than dying by their firing squad, being raped, tortured, electrocuted or malnourished in their prisons.

            • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              Maybe if blood thirsty dictator putin didn’t start a war of aggression, there could have been 0 deaths.

              That’s probably correct. I’m not Putin though, could you please not hold me accountable for his actions?

              I’d rather die fighting russia than dying by their firing squad, being raped, tortured, electrocuted or malnourished in their prisons.

              Ok, that’s your choice, you are free to do whatever you want, including dying for your beliefs, it is not a problem.
              A problem begins when you want/support other people dying for your beliefs.

              • tired_n_bored@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                2 months ago

                I’m not Putin though, coulf you please not hold me accountable for his actions?

                But “Ukraine bad”, “Russia good” right? Why criticizing only Ukraine and Zelensky since they’re defending their land and not even a word against Russia or Putin?

                You make it seem like that surrendering to an invasion is the right thing to do. So if Russia decided to invade the whole of Europe we should sit waiting for russian soldiers to rape our sisters and moms and execute us with our hands tied behind our back?

                Moreover, in occupied Ukraine people get drafted anyways by Russia to fight Ukrainian soldiers. So what? Should they surrender waiting to go to the opposite side?

                • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  5
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  But “Ukraine bad”, “Russia good” right? Why criticizing only Ukraine and Zelensky since they’re defending their land and not even a word against Russia or Putin?

                  I never said “Russia good”.
                  Here, just for you: Russia and Putin are bad.

                  You make it seem like that surrendering to an invasion is the right thing to do.

                  No, I don’t.

                  So if Russia decided to invade the whole of Europe we should sit waiting for russian soldiers to rape our sisters and moms and execute us with our hands tied behind our back?

                  No, you are free to do what you want, including fighting Russia. But if you try to to kill me, my family, my friends - don’t be surprised that I’d rather support Russia than you…

                  Moreover, in occupied Ukraine people get drafted anyways by Russia to fight Ukrainian soldiers. So what? Should they surrender waiting to go to the opposite side?

                  People who accept Russian citizenship (which is generally not forced onto anyone) may get drafted (there was some exemption though for people on liberated territories till 2024, not sure if it’s still in effect though). People are frre to leave at any moment though.
                  This is also wrong, but in no way comparable to Zelensky’s regime kidnapping people on the streets every single day and trapping them in the country. (There were some cases of that happening in LPR & DPR previously, which is also terrible, but again not nearly on a similar scale to what Zelensky is doing)

          • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            Lol, people usually report me because “spreading misinformation/propaganda” or something along those lines, but @SomeGuy69@lemmy.world is more creative and reported this comment for “talking like a true rapist” :D