Locking this post as the discussion has gone past the point of being productive.
Edit: I’m keeping everything up because the criticism of it is both accurate, and demonstrating the point. She makes a flawed statement, but that doesn’t justify the inordinate response she gets. Humans make mistakes and that’s ok. We’re all imperfect and worthy of critique that allows us to grow.
Why Charlie Brown gotta call her a bitch :(
That’s definitely that fucker, Cailou, defying the will of the universe (and every person who’s ever met him) to reach adulthood.
I like how the comments are playing along with the joke!
I honestly I don’t care that I’m being made fun of and blamed for even having the audacity to stand up for myself, I’m still going to say something because it’s wrong. It’s sexists and I’m tired of it.
You know what your doing. You should, I hope, understand that not only is it wrong, you are just pushing the center back from the progressive wave. You are needlessly creating political opposition and hyping the base of a series of political camps you likely hate.
It’s dumb. It’s sexist. And you are creating needles resistance to a progressive agenda.
Flame me bro.
I wouldn’t expect any less.
At least I’m meeting someone’s expectations for a change. I’m sorry mom, I’ll continue to try and do better.
👌👍
for even having the audacity to stand up for myself
It’s not courage you’re showing, it’s frailty lol
It’s called selection bias…
Legitimate question, does this work as a double standard?
Hi, I have a penis. I have observed (autistic superpower: bottom-up perception) male fragility in psychological state more than that of women. “Sometimes people have fragile psychological states and react in ways I find annoying,” is generally true, but it is more often true for men.
It might also be that women tend more to internalise slights because they are socialised to be passive. This would result in men being more responsive when they are slighted by, for example, period products being free “because what about men?!?!” Ignoring the fact condoms are given away for free, and are health products that are useful for men (as well as women).
Hi, I have a fat ass and I think we should teach men it’s okay to cry so they stop building up their grief.
Congratulations on the ass
Pls send pics
Men say that women are weak, fragile, and all that sorts of stuff all the time, women already deal with that. Men who are like this, cannot take the same kind of flak, which inherently proves the point that they are fragile.
Yes, but when men say those things it is unacceptable, so by the same logic shouldn’t this meme be unacceptable or is it a double standard?
Pointing out anyone’s fragile ego isn’t a bad thing. Women by and large tend to not do this, while a lot more men do have this issue. That’s why it’s a big meme in the first place, this is why men respond to this sort of thing in a very defensive way.
Pointing out anyone’s fragile ego isn’t a bad thing.
Pointing out a person’s fragile ego based on an experience of such isn’t a bad thing, but generalizing this conclusion to an entire group of people (where the group is defined by a single characteristic such as race/sex/gender/religion/culture/etc) is a bad thing.
To put it another way, one sample is bad statistics.
A better version of this might say “Many of the men I meet seem to have fragile egos” or even “Most of the men I know [etc]”. This could be a valid statement supported by the individual’s experience, and avoids the sexism displayed in the comic.
Correct. Saying all men are rapist’s is sexist. However, in this meme, she says sometimes. She even says it quietly as to keep her opinion quiet and to themselves. However all the men around somehow heard and complain that they do not infact have fragile egos.
Men getting upset over the possibility of being targeted, not even directly, is proving the point that men are being fragile about their egos.
This is a meme, but it exists because of the prevalence of the issue of a lot of men being overly defensive for no damn reason.
However, in this meme, she says sometimes.
Yeah this is vague. The sentence: “Sometimes men’s egos can be so fragile” can be read as meaning that all men’s egos are sometimes fragile, or it could mean that some men’s egos are always fragile. But the use of “sometimes” implies a variance with time (e.g. not with person) which makes the first interpretation a better fit.
If the second meaning was intended, then the sentence should be restated to avoid the apparent sexism.
You could also say that the meaning is that some men’s egos are sometimes fragile, but I don’t think that interpretation is valid because then the ending of comic doesn’t make sense.
Either way, the word always was not used.
I think this whole thread not talking about the why’s but talking about the double standards, sexism against men and the nit picking of the meme kind of just proves the memes point.
I suppose thats fair, you can make the argument that the meme is a reaction rather than a random attack.
Exactly, if you’re a man and find this meme funny, it’s not about you. If you get upset about it, then its about you.
I’m just confused. If it’s a double standard, what’s the opposing view that creates the double standard?
I probably already know, but can someone help out my tired brain on this one? It doesn’t work too good right now.
If a man calls women naturally insecure is it acceptable and does any response by women appear as needless badgering?
Just genderswap the characters and nouns and see if it feels different to you as a result.
Just genderswap the characters and nouns and see if it feels different to you as a result.
This is literally the best way to detect sexism. Like, would you say the same thing to someone of a different sex? Same thing with people who call assertive women “bitchy”. They would call a similar man “determined”.
Of course this comic is just rage bait for men and women…
The first panel says men’s egos sometimes…
I see no issue, but maybe I’m biased
There is a social context that makes gender-swapping not entirely symmetrical. Men and women are not treated equally by a large portion of the population. These differences in treatment have repeating patterns and tendencies that create a bias that does not average out.
Just to be clear, both men and women suffer from these biases. Think “provide for family”, “parental leave”, “children custody”, “real men don’t cry” for men. Women get the short end of stick in terms of autonomy and respect though…
So some of your standards don’t apply to both genders? Somebody should make a term for that.
They are not my standards. Describing reality does not mean you’re happy about it. And yeah, that’s sexism, patriarchy, whatever you want to call it.
I’m too tired to wrap my brain around it at the moment, but you gave a valiant effort. I’m sure I’ll get it tomorrow after I’ve gotten my wake up juice.
I think that’s a clear indication I need to take a break for the evening, so wherever you are and whatever time it is there, I bid you a good morning, afternoon, or goodnight… Whichever is most applicable.
Oh no, no, not at all. This comic is perfectly fine and non problematic if you replace ‘men’ with any huge group of people like ‘women’, ‘gay’, ‘asians’, ‘americans’ or ‘blacks’. Also if you disagree with me then you just proove my point as is shown in the last panel. Case closed!
You are literally one of the people in the last panel
Oh god, you’re so fragile. You’re literally in second to last sentence of my previous post
🤷♂️ what do you expect when you go out picking a fight? You just expect large populations to ignore messaging that they are all the worlds problems? It’s amazing that none of you have an ounce of empathy.
In the comic she isn’t picking a fight, she is confiding in a friend her frustration that sometimes men can have fragile egos. That doesn’t mean men are the root of all problems. The comic is saying that often criticism, no matter how small or in what context, can be met with an overblown reaction that derails any potential conversation and spirals into name calling and whataboutism.
It would be sexist to say men are the root of every problem, but I’m not seeing anyone claim that. Not in the comic, not in these comments, not in real life, really only in certain toxic Internet spaces. A woman pointing out a common problem they experience with men ideally would be met with self reflection, not deflection. It is not a lack of empathy from women, it is women not understanding why men struggle to identify an issue that seems so clear to women. And men not understanding why women would make a generalized statement that seems to criticize individual men.
But women are often talking about a systemic issue with men, not trying to personally insult individuals. And the deflection and insults that they often receive just furthers the frustration between sexes. You’re saying that the issue would be prevented if women didn’t say things that have negative messaging. I firmly believe that would make the issue worse, as the first step to fixing an issue is identifying it and facing it head on.
Men often have fragile egos. That does not make men evil. It is barely even an issue unless an individual man lets it define his actions. If a criticism from a woman doesn’t seem true to you personally, congrats! You have self reflected and don’t have to worry about it because she’s not talking about you.
If it helps, I have empathy for you. I’m pretty sure I’m not cis so I don’t call myself a man anymore lol but I had the same feelings as you do until a couple years after I met my wife. We had long talks and disagreements about the divide between men and women that form from miscommunication and misunderstanding. And I expressed frustration at the criticisms women often have of men. And she explained that it’s not meant to insult, just vent from personal experience. That it’s not a way to make men feel bad, not malicious or looking down on men. It’s just an attempt to communicate an issue they see. And after a while I started to see how true that is. And then I realized I might not be a dude so it kinda was a waste of time lmao
Sorry about the wall of text, tl:dr when a woman is critical it’s meant to express a frustration and communicate an issue, not insult or put down every individual man. If you’re a man and hear criticism, it’s not likely applicable to you. But it helps to self reflect and have empathy
No, you are just fragile. Not serious.
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I’m not a fan of this kind of media as it’s still about kicking others down rather than raising people up which is really unfortunate as we’ve already got plenty of corporations already doing this to the majority of people
If the essence of this comic is about critisizing the fragility of ego in men, then wouldn’t a better solution be to encourage men’s ability to self-reflect and learn empathetic communication (Non-Violent-Communication)?
Personally I’m tired of these firestarter situations that pits people against each other as it’s all so needlessly tragic. As someone with conservative family members this is just all too familiar unfortunately and I hate it as it’s not useful or enjoyable for anyone.
Like does the state of humanity’s current shitty position really change by fighting each other? Personally I don’t think so. Unless we’re in a situation where civil disobedience is required to fight opression from the top, I see these situations as unhelpful and toxic for both feminists and men.
Criticism plays a valuable role, in my opinion, to self-improvement. If the reader feels attacked, then deeper introspection is needed. ‘do I treat women like this?’ and ‘why would someone make this comic?’ should be some of the first questions asked.
It’s pretty clear that the situation in the comic happens because someone went out of their way to draw it.
Criticism is a prompt for people or society to self-evaluate. It’s a point towards an ongoing problem. It’s meant to make us feel uncomfortable. Where is the impetus for change if we feel comfortable?
If the reader feels attacked
Non-violent criticism can still be done by addressing the point/statement rather than attacking the person. I don’t understand how gender is involved with fragile egos as it can be a universal problem.
As a feminist I have to say media such as this comic hurts the movement as it makes it harder for us to garner support from people of all backgrounds. Not all women sterotype men, and not all men sterotype women. The best of both is possible, but like a scientist you have to be willing to find the truth.
I find this similiar to how some:
- anti-oil activists cause harm onto all people (such as causing traffic problems by sitting on roads) rather than protesting against oil companies directly.
- schools create penalties for the entire class instead of singling out and isolating the bully.
Nothing in this particular comic is attacking an individual though. In fact, it’s painting with too broad of a brush (as you point out), because sadly, this issue is relatively widespread. Fragile egos are most certainly a universal problem, and women are not without fault. Some of the most abhorrent people I’ve met have been women. That doesn’t change the fact that gender norms for men promote fragile egos. Messaging of "you must compete, you’re only as good as what you can provide to your family, you should never be weak is ubiquitous. When these things are challenged, or we don’t meet these societal expectations, things tend to go poorly.
Men need to work on supporting each other, being comfortable not aligning with societal expectations, understanding that it’s ok to be weak/vulnerable, and realizing that their value is existential (like all humans) and not tied to production, or some other arbitrary metric.
Oh Lord, it’s bear in the woods all over again
If a bear falls in the woods does it make a sound?
Depends on what velocity the bear hits the ground
European bear or African bear?
I’m a guy, and I really don’t give a damn. I surround myself with folks who are open-minded and won’t make me insecure. Or if someone tries to, I don’t let them get into my head. It says a lot about themselves trying to put me down than about me.
This is the way.
The comic is more getting at that women can’t say much without a ‘well actually-ism’. I have a mentor who is an expert in her field, and she’s actually had male engineers try and tell her she’s wrong about checks notes her field (not engineering related). I’m a man in the same field as her, and I’ve never had this happen. Anecdotal evidence, I know, but the point remains.
I dislike how men assume we know more, and the way we go about challenging things, or colour outside the lines of our knowledge base. You can still challenge something, but with questions, not insistence that you’re right.
I have a fragile id, too.
Yes. We get it. Men are the root of all evil and we should shut up about it and take it.
It’s amazing watching the little monkey tribes that we create fight. The Internet will be the death of us all. Nobody, including those who have been at the pointy end of the stick keeps their empathy and humidity on it.
It’s a side-effect of the cooties they picked up on Jupiter
If anything, I would say many men have fragile egos with peace and love. Real bravery requires vulnerability, and strength is only gained by breaking down muscles and rebuilding them in a controlled manner. Work through your issues properly so you know your own limitations, and you’ll be more resilient to criticism in the future.
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Talking about men in a nebulous context to vent to your friend = also cringe.
Lol oh shut the fuck up
A man telling women it’s “cringe” to vent to her friends about societal issues is cringe, you moron.
No women are fragile! Not like I over compensate by commenting counter points over a internet forum and drive a really expensive truck that I never use the bed for. Or feel threatened by women smarter than Me.
/s
